Comments on: My Second Office http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/ Stories, thoughts & insights on Jesus, college students, and the Bible; Los Angeles, immigration, politics, ethnicity and culture, and also about my daughter Isabel - from a spanglish gringo father living in, learning from, leading & loving life in East L.A. Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:03:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Spanglish Gringo http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-753 Spanglish Gringo Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:53:06 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-753 More like latent denial of so many to see the logic (& Starbucks approval) of my practice. :p More like latent denial of so many to see the logic (& Starbucks approval) of my practice. :p

]]> By: Craig http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-752 Craig Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:04:03 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-752 Hmmm. I sense some latent guilt bro ;-) Hmmm. I sense some latent guilt bro ;-)

]]> By: Scott http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-150 Scott Fri, 07 Oct 2005 03:25:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-150 Anonymous, Thanks for weighing in. Always appreciated. My practice, however, remains unaddressed. If Starbucks assumes my unpaid patronage in their cost of business - unlike a restaurant that will ask me to make a purchase or give up a table - then why should I go to the public library? The one in my neighborhood is not maintained well by my tax dollars and the downtown library - which is as you described - is not easily accessible for parking. The reality is that Starbucks has no "bottom line" problem with my unpaid patronage because it doesn't actually change their bottom line. People purchase their coffee regardless of open tables, no employee's wages are impacted by the number of tables that are occupied, and the reality of promotional products that require no purchase reinforces that their tables & space are part of their operating costs that they build into their bottom line. Certainly, if no one made purchases, they would change this policy. But the reality is that this practice does not diminish their bottom line. If it did, they would quickly change the practice. That they haven't probably means that not only is their bottom line not negatively impacted, but they've probably determined that it is positively impacted by my occasional purchase. If I was at the library, I would NEVER make a purchase at Starbucks. Therefore, my occasional purchase increases their bottom line - sales - even at the cost of regular non-purchasing patronage. Anonymous,
Thanks for weighing in. Always appreciated.

My practice, however, remains unaddressed. If Starbucks assumes my unpaid patronage in their cost of business - unlike a restaurant that will ask me to make a purchase or give up a table - then why should I go to the public library?

The one in my neighborhood is not maintained well by my tax dollars and the downtown library - which is as you described - is not easily accessible for parking.

The reality is that Starbucks has no “bottom line” problem with my unpaid patronage because it doesn’t actually change their bottom line. People purchase their coffee regardless of open tables, no employee’s wages are impacted by the number of tables that are occupied, and the reality of promotional products that require no purchase reinforces that their tables & space are part of their operating costs that they build into their bottom line.

Certainly, if no one made purchases, they would change this policy. But the reality is that this practice does not diminish their bottom line. If it did, they would quickly change the practice.

That they haven’t probably means that not only is their bottom line not negatively impacted, but they’ve probably determined that it is positively impacted by my occasional purchase. If I was at the library, I would NEVER make a purchase at Starbucks.

Therefore, my occasional purchase increases their bottom line - sales - even at the cost of regular non-purchasing patronage.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-149 Anonymous Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:03:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-149 Eric Wu forwarded me your blog so you can blame him for my comments. :). This is a fascinating discussion because we all spend way too much money at Starbucks...Here's my $1.15 worth of thoughts (the cheapest thing you can get there). Though Starbucks is committed to being a "third place", they are way more committed to their bottom line. No restaurant would post a sign that "requires" you to buy food at their establishment because that much is assumed. If you would like a truly free workspace, may I recommend the public library? They provide tables, chairs, bathrooms, drinking fountains, and sometimes even free wireless internet access, depending on the location. And all of this out of your tax dollars you are already paying. Eric Wu forwarded me your blog so you can blame him for my comments. :). This is a fascinating discussion because we all spend way too much money at Starbucks…Here’s my $1.15 worth of thoughts (the cheapest thing you can get there). Though Starbucks is committed to being a “third place”, they are way more committed to their bottom line. No restaurant would post a sign that “requires” you to buy food at their establishment because that much is assumed. If you would like a truly free workspace, may I recommend the public library? They provide tables, chairs, bathrooms, drinking fountains, and sometimes even free wireless internet access, depending on the location. And all of this out of your tax dollars you are already paying.

]]> By: Scott http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-148 Scott Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:17:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-148 To add, my employee reference even gave me some coupons for a FREE beverage at my next visit. If that doesn't say open door policy, I don't know what does. To add, my employee reference even gave me some coupons for a FREE beverage at my next visit. If that doesn’t say open door policy, I don’t know what does.

]]> By: Scott http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-147 Scott Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:23:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-147 "Come to think of it, I may have done that before myself..." Hmmm. Interesting how that '<I>little</I>' fact just <I>now</I> showed up. If I remember, it was you who so humbly shared: "Yes! I think I win... and given <I>your</I> "prickling" of conviction, so does jesus..." Where was that prickling before... (Mt.7:3,5) “Come to think of it, I may have done that before myself…”

Hmmm. Interesting how that ‘little‘ fact just now showed up. If I remember, it was you who so humbly shared:

“Yes! I think I win… and given your “prickling” of conviction, so does jesus…”

Where was that prickling before… (Mt.7:3,5)

]]> By: maite http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-146 maite Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:15:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-146 OK ok. I think I am convinced (but only after the green light from a real deal starbucks employee that it is fine to go and not spend). Come to think of it, I may have done that before myself... OK ok. I think I am convinced (but only after the green light from a real deal starbucks employee that it is fine to go and not spend).
Come to think of it, I may have done that before myself…

]]> By: Scott http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-145 Scott Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:33:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-145 Again, just for the record, I spoke with a Starbucks employee that confirmed for me there is no problem with non-paying guests taking advantage of Starbucks free services (read-tables). I consider it just another promotional product, like a free sample of coconut mint frappacino, that Starbucks counts into the cost of doing business in their industry. Again, just for the record, I spoke with a Starbucks employee that confirmed for me there is no problem with non-paying guests taking advantage of Starbucks free services (read-tables).

I consider it just another promotional product, like a free sample of coconut mint frappacino, that Starbucks counts into the cost of doing business in their industry.

]]> By: Veronica http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-144 Veronica Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:18:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-144 I would have to say that your argument is very appealing. I have always been very opposed to just chilling in a coffee shop, and thus bought many regular decaff coffee cups... the cheapest to apease my conscience.. but mabe you are right... maybe it is o.k. to buy a yummy coffee every once in a while... since the coffee shop has included my office time in their costs... :) I would have to say that your argument is very appealing. I have always been very opposed to just chilling in a coffee shop, and thus bought many regular decaff coffee cups… the cheapest to apease my conscience.. but mabe you are right… maybe it is o.k. to buy a yummy coffee every once in a while… since the coffee shop has included my office time in their costs… :)

]]> By: Scott http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-143 Scott Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:09:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-143 For those of you keeping score at home, I stopped by "the office" this morning after dropping a friend off at the airport -- and I <B><I>did</I> purchase</B> a mocha & a coffee crum cake. Let me explain my purchase, though. I made a purchase based on my <I><B>personal desire</B></I> for the product, not because of any sense of <I><B>obligation</I></B> to Starbucks (nor any other coffee shop), nor because of any <I><B>policy</I></B> requiring my purchase. If Starbucks, or any other coffee place, required ALL guests to be customers - a reasonable right of any establishment - then I believe it would be clearly posted in their stores. However, the absence of ANY such posted policy indicates that Starbucks - and other coffee establishments - assumes non-paying guests into the cost of business, just as any company provides free/promotional products to <I><B>attract</I></B> customers. That I am not always attracted neither bothers nor surprises Starbucks (nor any enterprise that offers free/promotioanl products) and shouldn't bother or surprise anyone else - with a <I>Napolean complex</I> or otherwise. For those of you keeping score at home, I stopped by “the office” this morning after dropping a friend off at the airport — and I did purchase a mocha & a coffee crum cake.

Let me explain my purchase, though. I made a purchase based on my personal desire for the product, not because of any sense of obligation to Starbucks (nor any other coffee shop), nor because of any policy requiring my purchase.

If Starbucks, or any other coffee place, required ALL guests to be customers - a reasonable right of any establishment - then I believe it would be clearly posted in their stores.

However, the absence of ANY such posted policy indicates that Starbucks - and other coffee establishments - assumes non-paying guests into the cost of business, just as any company provides free/promotional products to attract customers.

That I am not always attracted neither bothers nor surprises Starbucks (nor any enterprise that offers free/promotioanl products) and shouldn’t bother or surprise anyone else - with a Napolean complex or otherwise.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-142 Anonymous Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:55:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-142 This is the best thread ever. -mark. This is the best thread ever.

-mark.

]]> By: Abner Ramos http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-141 Abner Ramos Sat, 13 Aug 2005 03:27:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-141 Abner said to the Philistine, “You come against me with excuses as to why you shouldn’t pay at your second office and the rest of us should, but I come against you in the name of Starbucks, Coffee Bean, Pete’s, Seattle’s Best, Michaelangelo’s, the providers of great coffee, whom you have cheated out of $4 every time you claim to be a “non-paying customer”. Abner said to the Philistine, “You come against me with excuses as to why you shouldn’t pay at your second office and the rest of us should, but I come against you in the name of Starbucks, Coffee Bean, Pete’s, Seattle’s Best, Michaelangelo’s, the providers of great coffee, whom you have cheated out of $4 every time you claim to be a “non-paying customer”.

]]> By: Scott http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-140 Scott Sat, 13 Aug 2005 02:58:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-140 First of all, to my detractors (esp.Mark) - Don't hate the player, hate the game. Secondly, to Maite: if home (space #1) is free, and work (space #2) involves money, then wouldn't it follow suit that the "third space between home & work" that Starbucks feels obliged to provide me, would be free 1/2 the time and involve money 1/2 the time? That is generally my pattern. Third, to Abner: Don't make me go MMP on you. Clearly you are working out something of your own issues from the physical effects of drinking too much coffee as a youth. I'm not your Goliath. Stop throwing rocks. Lots of love to all of you. XOXOXO First of all, to my detractors (esp.Mark) - Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Secondly, to Maite: if home (space #1) is free, and work (space #2) involves money, then wouldn’t it follow suit that the “third space between home & work” that Starbucks feels obliged to provide me, would be free 1/2 the time and involve money 1/2 the time? That is generally my pattern.

Third, to Abner: Don’t make me go MMP on you. Clearly you are working out something of your own issues from the physical effects of drinking too much coffee as a youth. I’m not your Goliath. Stop throwing rocks.

Lots of love to all of you. XOXOXO

]]> By: Abner Ramos http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-139 Abner Ramos Sat, 13 Aug 2005 02:37:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-139 You do this at EVERY coffee shop we got to. Have you checked into their policies also? You do this at EVERY coffee shop we got to. Have you checked into their policies also?

]]> By: maite http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-138 maite Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:38:00 +0000 http://www.spanglishgringo.com/weblog/2005/08/12/my-second-office/#comment-138 Yes! I think I win, Webster agrees, and given your "prickling" of conviction, probly so does jesus (just kidding, its not that serious). But as to the 3rd space bit, I'm still unconvinced, b/c if space #1 is home (free) and space #2 is work (they pay you) than it only follows that #3, you pay. No crees? But aside from the right or wrong of it, I just know that if I had just bought a grande vanilla latte, and was all excited to sit and chill, but all tables were taken, and one was by a non-paying very tall man, I'd have issues, and not b/c I am short =). Yes! I think I win, Webster agrees, and given your “prickling” of conviction, probly so does jesus (just kidding, its not that serious). But as to the 3rd space bit, I’m still unconvinced, b/c if space #1 is home (free) and space #2 is work (they pay you) than it only follows that #3, you pay. No crees? But aside from the right or wrong of it, I just know that if I had just bought a grande vanilla latte, and was all excited to sit and chill, but all tables were taken, and one was by a non-paying very tall man, I’d have issues, and not b/c I am short =).

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