At the same time, I do follow what you are saying about different view of the same God. Without getting into all of the complicated stuff, I can agree to that on some points. I share more in common with a Muslim than, say, a Buddhist or someone who worships the sun or those who “evangelize” worshiping God ‘however you understand God to be.” In that way, we (Christians & Muslims) share not just monotheism, but a common faith with different views of the same one God.

However, there are irreconcilable points of faith - and not just minor issues about semantics or about dress or architecture or holy book. This brings us back to the 5th point about who Jesus claims to be. Generally, Islam accepts & respects Jesus as a prophet. And this he was. But Jesus claims to be much more than “just” a prophet, and at this critical juncture, the “different views/same God” paradigm breaks down. At the “Jesus point,” the path breaks off and the destination changes. Which is why serious engagement with who Jesus claims to be is so central.

In asserting this view I take it as a fact that the Judeo-Christian view and manuscript (bible and the torah) is correct (has higher authority than the Koran), both because it is older and because it seems to have the more general perspective in mind. Also, Muslims do recognize that it is through Ishmael that Mohammad came - it is not necessary that they see Ishmael as a father for my point to hold, only that Mohammad came through Ishmael and therefore (from a Christian perspective) would be less blessed than Isaac, where Jesus came from (remember, Muslims don’t have a father relationship with God, so it wouldn’t make sense that they see Ishmael as a father).

SG, you write, “In the Koran, Islam reads Ishmael, not Isaac, as the chosen son“. True, but from the Muslim perspective salvation does come from Ishmael, and by ‘chosen son’, all that is meant is that salvation will come through that son, not necessarily that it has to be a father figure relationship (something you read into the text).

Your fifth point is the most controversial and troublesome for my view, but I have a strong hunch that if I got deeper into the details and separated what is specifically Christian (the unique father son relationship via Isaac) and what is specifically Muslim (the more master slave relationship) and factored in that the bible speaks of atleast two different relationships God has had with his people based on certain historical events (old testament God vs. new testament God - the resurrection ) and add in the fact that God has treated one group of people differently than another (the chosen jews vs the gentiles) based simply on the acts of one person I could come up with something that reconciles the Christian and Muslim biblical stories without contradicting either one - and showing that the fundamental difference between Christians and Muslims is not one God vs. a different God, but instead the relationship God has given the Christians (a more blessed relationship with him, via Isaac) to that of Muslims ( a less blessed, but blessed nonetheless, relationship with God via Ishmael).

Incidentally, both of my college friends mentioned above were Arabs, with the Christan one being from Lebanon and also having lived in Kuwait and I think Iraq as well. He is a maronite Catholic and his father speaks arabic, english and french.

In response:

1. You got the gist of my post right.

2. I agree Eddy about your insight. Most of your assessment from a emotional/ psychological analysis works. (Another argument for not having children out of wedlock, huh?) Makes sense as a sort of ‘mythological’ framework for explaining the two different view. The New Testament even picks up on some of that theme (and sort of, your point) in Galatians 4. Check it out.

3. Problem with that explanation - In the Koran, Islam reads Ishmael, not Isaac, as the chosen son. According to that, your reading should be that Islam would represent God as a loving Father, which it does not.

4. Eddy’s point is also interesting. He would know - born in Iraq, grew up some in Lebanon.

5. Another point that goes along with this is the question - could two different views still point to the same God? I would say ‘no’ because it would raise a question of integrity in self-revelation, ie. if God reveals his identity as a loving Father to Christians but as distant God to Islam, but tells both that they have the right view, then God is either 1) schizophrenic (ie. crazy), 2) deceiving somebody, or 3) only actually self-revealed in truth to one or the other. Can’t be both.

This is most clearly seen in Jesus from the New Testament. Based on what Jesus says, there is no way for the world to accept him as just a good model or a good moral teacher, like a Ghandi or MLK for his day. Based on his self-declarations, he is either 1) delusional, 2) intentionally lying, or 3) who he claims to be - God-in-the-flesh & Lord over everything.

Even if you want to dispute the integrity & authority of the New Testament - as some do - as “just what early followers made up about Jesus, or just made up entirely” - the same options still apply, since unlike Christianity in the west today, most of early Christians were martyred for this claim. So either they were delusional and self-decieved, or trying to deceive others (& willing to die for the lie) or what they claim about Jesus and lived out is actually founded on truth & historical reality.

What do you think?

As a Christian, my take is that all religious experiences or worldviews (apart from the Christian one) do not have the full revelation of the one true God. They all fail to capture the essence of God–whether it is Islam or Gnosticism.

I think your observation is more using the story of Ishmael and Isaac as a metaphor for the difference between the two religions, rather than an explanation for the difference. I think it’s a true metaphor and a very keen insight.

If so, I may have an answer that reconciles these two differences, and an answer that points in the opposite direction - the two Gods really are the same.

Many years ago, when I was still doing undergraduate work in engineering, I got really interested in philosophy, religion and especially comparative religions, and I would read everything I could get my hands on about these topics. I was also lucky enough to have friends that knew a lot on the topic - my best friend in college, also studying engineering with me, was a devout Catholic and already had a bachelors degree in Philosophy, another friend was a strong Muslim ex-Christian who would go to other colleges debating (official, college sponsored debates) with Christians about why Islam is right and Christianity is wrong. Amidst their bickering with each other and with the help of the reading I had done on my own I came across an idea that reconciled the two that neither could rebut - I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

It’s been years so I may get some of the details wrong but if memory serves me correctly the old testament stories of Abraham (and many other old testament prophets, for that matter) are very similar between Jews, Christians and Muslims with the fundamental difference that Jews and Christians see Isaac, the son of Abraham, as the blessed child and Muslims see Ishmael, also the son of Abraham, as the blessed child. This disagreement is very important since it is through the blessed child, either Isaac or Ishmael, that the messiah will come and since Jesus came through Isaac and Mohammad came through Ishmael, you can see why the disagreements are so fundamental and will likely never be reconciled.

Christians and Jews will tend to argue that Isaac is blessed and Ishmael is cursed but if you look closely at the text (in Genesis I believe), it isn’t that Ishmael is cursed as much as ‘less blessed’ (it also makes sense, why would God punish Ishmael simply for being the son of a slave?).

Looked at in this context it makes perfect sense - Christians offer salvation via a God who is intimately involved in your life, giving a father son relationship. Muslims offer salvation via a God who is not intimately involved in your life, giving something more like a master slave relationship. In other words, Christians have the God of the New Testament who sees the world through the sacrifice of Jesus (son of Isaac) and Muslims have the God of the Old Testament who sees the world through Mohammad (son of Ishmael) - both the same God, just with very different views of how the ‘children’ are viewed.

There is much more to the story than this but this is the heart of it - basically we have, played out on a global spiritual scale, the same problems that affected the chosen peoples first family. It all started with a child born out of wedlock and continued with the dislike of Ishmael and Isaac to eventual end with Ishmael, along with his mother, being sent away and thus resulting in the biblical prophecy of Ishmael ‘living in hostility towards all his brothers’.

What think you?